CISCO VS. MICROSOFT STRATEGIC DECISIONS - BRENT KELLY, PRINCIPAL ANALYST KELCOR, INC.
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Cisco Vs. Microsoft
Strategic Decisions
Brent Kelly, Principal Analyst
KelCor, Inc.
bkelly@kelcor.com
435-563-2532
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 1
Agenda
1 Introduction‐Product Comparison
2 Licensing and TCO
3 Roadmap/Future Considerations
4 Decision Making Aids
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 2
About The Presenter…
Dr. E. Brent
Dr. Brent Kelly is Principal Analyst at KelCor, Inc. where he focuses on the intersection
of unified communications, social media, video, cloud services and mobility. Dr. Kelly
Kelly
provides strategy and counsel to Chief Information Officers, Chief Technology Officers,
investment analysts, VCs, technology policy executives, sell side firms and technology
buyers.
Previously, Dr. Kelly served for two years as Vice President and Principal Analyst at
Constellation Research, Inc., and for ten years as a partner at Wainhouse Research
where he was the primary author of most of the firm’s unified communications reports
and forecasts.
Brent has a Ph.D. in engineering and serves as an elected official in his community.
3
The Market Reality
Cisco Data Network Microsoft Lync
75% IM/Presence
60%
Cisco Voice Network
25% - 35%
Sources: Nemertes, Infonetics,
MZA, PKE Estimates
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 4
The Challenge
Cisco Microsoft
~21%
have both
Cisco voice
and
Microsoft
Lync
Sources: Nemertes, Infonetics,
MZA, PKE Estimates
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 5
The Challenge
Cisco ~45% Microsoft
of Cisco data
Deployments
could be
considering
Microsoft Lync
for voice
This is why the Cisco vs Microsoft debate has become so important!
Sources: Nemertes, Infonetics,
MZA, PKE Estimates
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 6
Cisco vs Microsoft: The Collaboration Challenge © KelCor, Inc. 2014 7
End User Organizations Switching Toward a
Particular Communications Provider
Avaya, 12.9%
Cisco, 22.6%
Unsure/Evaluating, Microsoft, 12.9%
32.3%
Mitel, 3.2%
Unity (Siemens), 3.2%
Other/Multiple, 6.5% Cloud/Hosted, 3.2%
ShoreTel, 3.2%
Source: Nemertes
Research at Enterprise
Connect 2014
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 8
Why Choosing is Difficult
• In many organizations both vendors are strategic
– Cisco Jabber for all (requires only one telephony license)
– Microsoft Lync for all (often comes bundled in an Enterprise
Agreement)
• Political
– Intelligent, articulate proponents for both solutions
– Sometimes difficult to differentiate between them
– Someone will likely feel disenfranchised
• Approaches differ
– Cisco: from the data and PBX world
– Microsoft: from the enterprise software and collaboration world
– Both offer a “vision” for the future
– Both approaches are valid and often resonate
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 9
The Interface is Changing
From
Touch-Tone Dial
Single Channel
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 10The Interface is Changing
To
Click-to-Call
Click-to-Conference
Multi-Modal
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 11Pre-Convergence
Personal
Business
Productivity
Applications
Applications
and Processes
Voice Apps Data
TDM Infrastructure
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 12Architectural Choice – Cisco
Same vendor for voice and data
Personal Business
Productivity Applications
Applications and Processes
Voice Apps Data
Communications Infrastructure
Platform
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 13Architectural Choice – Microsoft
Microsoft for Productivity and Coms; Any Data Vendor
Personal Business
Productivity Applications
Applications and Processes
Voice Apps
Communications
Platform
Data
Infrastructure
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 14Architectures are Different
Personal Business
Personal Business
Productivity Applications
Productivity Applications
Applications and Processes
Applications and Processes
Voice Apps
Communications
Platform
Voice Apps Data
Communications
Infrastructure
Platform
Data
Infrastructure
What do you converge: Comms and network or
Comms and Personal Productivity Apps?
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 15Short Diversion for a Personal Opinion
Many innovations in the communication space over the next
10 years will integrate personal productivity, mobility, and
multi-modal engagement with business applications.
Personal Business
Productivity Applications
Applications and Processes
Best in Show
Example
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 16Comparing Portfolio Capabilities
Basic Telephony Services
Desktop Phones
PC Clients
Mobile Clients
Audio Conferencing
Contact Center
IM/Presence
Web Conferencing
Federation Services
Outlook Integration
Peer-to-Peer Video
Multipoint Video
Room System Integration
With Partner Eco-System
Source: PKE Consulting
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 17A Closer Look: Giving the Nod
Microsoft Lync Cisco UC/Jabber
• Telephony Capabilities
– Basic Features
– Advanced Telephony Features
• Audio/Web Conferencing
• Video Portfolio
• Single Vendor versus Eco-System
• Desktop Applications Integration
– Exchange/Outlook
– Office Apps
– SharePoint
• Federation
• Line of Business App Integration
• Contact Center
Source: Adapted from
PKE Consulting
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 18The Partner Ecosystem –
Disadvantage or Advantage?
Item
UC Software Microsoft Cisco
Servers Partner Cisco
SBCs Partner Cisco
Phones Partner Cisco
Video Units Partner Cisco
Contact Center Partner Cisco
Cloud Microsoft* Partner
Installation Partner Partner
Operations Other Other
Note: Even if Microsoft is chosen, it may be through a VAR;
thus you may still have a single vendor doing the integration.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 19Where Does the Money Go?
Contact Center and Video Were Added in this On-Premises Example
Microsoft Cisco
To Vendor* 8.4% 39.9%
To Partners Only 17.8% 4.4%
To Others 73.8% 55.8%
Big opportunity for hosted/managed services
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 20Four Strategic Options
All Cisco Both Elemental Both in Parallel All Microsoft
• One Vendor • Cisco for PBX • Location or • Single Vendor
• Full PBX • Microsoft for IM departmental (sort of)
• Guaranteed & presence • Support full UC • Eliminate PBX (if
• Integration • Little integration stack for both possible)
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 21If Lync Gets in the Door… It is
kind of insidious!
Lync for IM and Presence
Lync Peer to Peer Audio and Video
Web/Audio Conferencing through
Add an SBC and Voice Trunks
Lync
Lync Mobile Clients
Lync Federation
Lync Enterprise Voice
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 22The Licensing Conversation
Cisco
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 23Microsoft Lync 2013
Different License Types
• Lync Server Licenses
– Front End Server role
– Plus each Survivable Branch Appliance
• Client Access Licenses (CALs) Lync
• User Subscription Licenses (USLs) Licenses
– Office 365 and Lync Online
• Client License
• Windows Server Licenses
Don’t Forget
• SQL Server Licenses These Other
• Exchange Server Licenses Licenses
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 24Lync CALs
Adds
Conferencing and
Enterprise Voice
Adds Adds
Conferencing Enterprise Voice Plus CAL
Enterprise CAL Plus CAL Enterprise CAL
Standard CAL (IM/Presence)
• The Lync 2013 Client license is often included with
other products (Office Professional Plus, Office 365).
• Lync Mobile clients are free
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 25Lync CALs (Per User)
Plus CAL - $123
Enterprise CAL - $123
Standard CAL - $36
List Price for Full Stack = $282
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 26Lync Server CALs
• 40+ Pages of Licensing Guide
• Core CAL Suite (CCAL)
• Enterprise CAL (ECAL)
• Enterprise Agreement Subscription (EAS)
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 27Cisco Licensing
Cisco
+ + + + Personal Multiparty
WebEx
+ + + +
Conferencing
+ + + Unity Connection
N/A N/A Expressway
N/A N/A Jabber UC
CPE & CPE & Jabber IM/P
Hosted Hosted
Prime Collaboration
# of Devices
One One One/Two Multiple Multiple
Supported
UCL
UCL
UCL Enhanced/ CUWL CUWL
Essential
Basic Enhanced Standard Professional
(Analog)
Plus
$210/ List Price
$40 $125 $325 $500
$295
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 28Cisco CUWL Pro (Per User)
Cisco
List Price for Full Stack = $500
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 29Cisco Enterprise Agreement
Cisco
• Software and service rights for entire organization in
a single multi-year agreement
• Requires at least 2,000 knowledge workers
• Includes software, upgrade subscriptions (UCSS)
and technical support (ESW)
• Considers previous investments in Cisco
collaboration and support products
• Fixed cost for length of contract
• Unlimited organic growth and up to 20% of
inorganic growth before true-up
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 30Cisco Enterprise Agreement Offers Cisco © KelCor, Inc. 2014 31
Unified or Universal Communications?
Vendor licensing forces us to think in terms of point solutions
Video:
Lync Enterprise
UCL Enhanced Conferencing:
Voice: CUWL Standard
UCL Basic/Enhanced CUWL Pro
Lync Plus Lync Enterprise
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 32Modeling TCO © KelCor, Inc. 2014 33
A User Profile Should Drive Any Solution
Workload/Capability Profile Type: Manufacturing
Executive Highly Mobile Collaborative Worker Support Worker Task Worker
Percent by Category 3% 20% 30% 17% 30%
IM/Presence 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Federation 100% 100% 100% 100% 0%
Deskphone 100% 15% 50% 70% 15%
Softphone 100% 100% 100% 50% 30%
Executive Video Unit 50% 0% 0% 0% 0%
Mobile Smartphone Client 100% 100% 100% 50% 30%
Mobile Tablet Client 100% 100% 100% 50% 30%
Conferencing Hosts 50% 100% 100% 10% 10%
Multi‐Line, Multi‐Line, Multi‐Line, 2‐Line
Phone Type Speaker, Touch Speaker Speaker or Multi‐Line Single‐Line
Busy Hour Conferencing 50% 20% 20% 2% 1%
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 34A Look at the Licenses Required – 5000 Users
Public
Highly Collab. Support Task Attendant Space Analog Video
Executive Mobile Worker Worker Worker Consoles Phones Lines Rooms
Lync Standard CAL 150 1000 1500 850 1500 25 200 200 13
Lync Enterprise CAL 75 1000 1500 85 150 25 13
Lync Plus CAL 150 1000 1500 850 675 25 200 200
UCL‐Essential 200
UCL‐Basic 200
UCL‐Enhanced 0 0 0 344 995 13
CUWL‐Standard 75 0 0 421 355
CUWL‐Professional 75 1000 1500 85 150 25
User Licenses and CALs Total
Microsoft
Lync Standard CAL 5438
Lync Enterprise CAL 2848
Lync Plus CAL 4600 Note that there
Cisco
UCL‐Essential 200 are more than
UCL‐Basic 200 5000 licenses
UCL‐Enhanced 1352
CUWL‐Standard 851
required
CUWL‐Professional 2835
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 35TCO One time costs
Components Total server software
Total software CALs/Licenses
CALs
Total hardware
Total contact center
Total videoconferencing hardware
Total implementation costs
Grand total one time costs
5-year total of annual support costs
Server software maintenance / support
Total CAL
CAL/License
maintenance
maintenance
/ support
/ support
Total hardware support
Total videoconferencing maintenance / support
Total contact center annual support
Grand total support costs
Subtotal before support
operating
costs
costs
Operating costs
Total rack space costs
Total personnel costs
Essential for
Comparison of
Total power costs
Premises vs.
Total annual bandwidth cost Hosted!
Total SIP trunking cost
Total operating costs
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 36Case: 5,000 users. No Group Video. No Contact Center. EA Licensing
Where The Money Goes
One Time Costs Microsoft Percent One Time Costs Cisco Percent
Total Server Software $ 109,595 0.9% Total Server Software $ ‐ 0.0%
Total Software CALs $ 1,558,526 12.9% Total CUCM Software Licenses $ 895,822 8.0%
Total Hardware $ 511,579 4.2% Total CUBE SBC Licenses $ 20,687 0.2%
Total Contact Center $ ‐ 0.0% Total Unity Connections Licenses $ 44,348 0.4%
Total Video Conferencing Hardware $ ‐ 0.0% Total Hardware $ 888,362 8.0%
Total Implementation Costs $ 326,955 2.7% Total Contact Center Express $ ‐ 0.0%
Grand Total One Time Costs $ 2,506,654 20.8% Total Video Conferencing Hardware $ ‐ 0.0%
5‐Year Support and Maintenance Costs Total Implementation Costs $ 369,844 3.3%
Annual Server Software Maintenance $ ‐ 0.0%
Total One Time Costs $ 2,219,061 19.9%
Total Annual Software CALs Maintenance $ ‐ 0.0%
Support and Maintenance Costs
Annual Server Software Support $ 147,648 1.2%
Annual Server Software Maintenance $ ‐ 0.0%
Total Annual Software CALs Support $ 2,099,680 17.4%
Total CUCM Software License Maintenance $ 665,289 6.0%
Total Hardware Support $ 109,957 0.9%
Total CUCM Software License Support $ 520,033 4.7%
Total VideoConferencing Support/Maintenance $ ‐ 0.0%
Total Contact Center Annual Support $ ‐ 0.0% Total Hardware Support $ 25,098 0.2%
Grand Total Support and Maintenance Costs $ 2,357,286 19.5% Total Contact Center Annual Support $ ‐ 0.0%
Operating Costs Total Unity Connections Support and Maintenance $ 88,248 0.8%
Total Rack Space Costs $ 28,125 0.2% Total VideoConferencing Support/Maintenance $ ‐ 0.0%
Total Personnel Costs $ 6,600,000 54.7% Total Support and Maintenance Costs $ 1,298,667 11.7%
Total Power Costs $ 21,771 0.2% Operating Costs
Total Annual Bandwidth Cost $ 164,707 1.4% Total Rack Spack $ 30,000 0.3%
Total SIP Trunking Cost $ 388,125 3.2% Total Personnel Costs $ 6,912,500 62.0%
Grand Total Operating Costs $ 7,202,728 59.7% Total Power $ 37,630 0.3%
Grand Total $ 12,066,668 100% Total Annual Bandwidth Cost $ 190,045 1.7%
Total SIP Trunking Cost $ 458,831 4.1%
Total Operating Costs $ 7,629,007 68.4%
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 Total $ 11,146,735 100.0%
37License Type Matters
Case: Contact Center: No; Room Video: No; On-Premises
Microsoft EA/SA vs EAS Licensing
EAS = Enterprise Agreement Subscription
• Monthly or annual cost
• You don’t own the software license
Microsoft Enterprise Agreement with Maintenance Microsoft Enterprise Agreement Subscription
(EA/SA Licensing) (EAS Licensing)
Microsoft total: EAS gives Microsoft total:
23%
$12,066,668 Discount $9,272,159
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 38What About Conferencing Only?
Cloud solutions are universally less expensive for
conferencing only workloads
Microsoft Cisco
On-Prem On-Prem
Microsoft WebEx
O365 Cloud
Note: box heights do not represent cost comparison between
the vendors; only comparison between same vendor solutions.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 39Roadmap and Futures
1 What current Cisco UC users can expect
2 What current Microsoft UC users can expect
3 Suggestions for those who are undecided
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 40Both Cisco and Microsoft Seek
Differentiated Value Over Time
)
conferencing conferencing conferencing
center services effects
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 41Cisco © KelCor, Inc. 2014 42
Cisco: The Formal Position – 1
Continued emphasis
on video. New MX
and SX series. First
to market with H.265
video!
• Making video easy
– Back to the future: video should be
as easy as a phone call
– Mobile device proximity coupled
with mobile app to launch video
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 43Cisco: The Formal Position – 2
• Turnkey small and mid
market call control
• Supports video
• Some apps
included (VM/IM/P)
• 25 CWUL Pro
licenses comp’ed
• Making voice easy
– Quicker rollout
– All virtual images included
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 44Cisco: The Formal Position – 3
• Making cloud (a la
HCS) more compelling
• Multitenant voice
messaging
• Multitenant contact
center
• Service providers
can target SMB
market (50 – 100
• Most V10 functionality will be users)
available to service providers • VPN not required
at the end of Q1 2014 for remote workers
– Provider must then roll it out
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 45Cisco: My Take – 1
From a
September
2006 Cisco
briefing
Companies and markets evolve, and Cisco is
striving to meet demand for video at all levels
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 46No Surprises
Cisco: My Take – 2
Cisco HCS (cloud) results have been mixed
• Roughly 800,000 seats in use and 1.3 million sold to service
providers (over capacity of 65%)
HCS has been expensive in our RFPs
• Both in 2012 and 2013
Move to lower operator costs is good if it
translates to lower end user costs
• Lower hardware costs (some multitenancy)
• Simplifying on-boarding and continued operations
• Could make HCS more competitive with other offerings in the
SMB market
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 47Microsoft
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 48Microsoft: The Formal Position – 1
Windows Android Apple Apple Windows
Phone Tablet iPad iPhone 8.1 PC
All devices
are running
Lync
Similar Lync or Skype Experience across devices
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 49Microsoft: The Formal Position – 2
SIP
1 Video bridge w/legacy systems H.264
2 Lync Room Systems
3 Video between Lync & Skype
Crestron Smart
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 50Microsoft: The Formal Position – 3
1 PSTN calling from Lync Online
2 Larger Lync Online Meetings
3 JLync – Java wrapper for Lync API
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 51Microsoft: The Formal Position - 4
Others have tried to provide
context… and failed
Why Microsoft might succeed..
My guess is that context aware
search will be built into the
search mechanism that comes
as part of the operating system
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 52Microsoft: My Take – 1
Microsoft is gaining some momentum in voice
• Reminds me of where Cisco was 10 years ago
Adding voice to Office 365/Lync Online is great
for the SMB market
• Had a false start a few years ago, but it would be
welcome to the O365 user
Integrating legacy video investments is a good
move for Microsoft
• The could have been done by partners (i.e. Polycom), but
it is not hard for Lync Server to be the video bridge either
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 53Microsoft: My Take - 2
The Lync-Skype Video Integration
• This is a good move
• I hate the fact that you must get a new Microsoft user identity
(kind of kills the “universal communications” paradigm
B2C w/Skype (businesses pay the PSTN toll)
• May help enable more immediate rich interaction for SMBs
Too much focus on consumer solutions may dilute
momentum
• I really want to see my mom and kiddos on video all the time;
I really *don’t* want to see my business associates on video
all the time
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 54For the Undecided… Some Strategic Approaches Do you ever feel like both solutions are good but missing just a little something? © KelCor, Inc. 2014 55
Elimination Strategies © KelCor, Inc. 2014 56
No Matter Which Solution You are
Looking At…
Profile your users
Workload/Capability Profile Type: Manufacturing
Executive Highly Mobile Collaborative Worker Support Worker Task Worker
Percent by Category 3% 20% 30% 17% 30%
IM/Presence 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Federation 100% 100% 100% 100% 0%
Deskphone 100% 15% 50% 70% 15%
Softphone 100% 100% 100% 50% 30%
Executive Video Unit 50% 0% 0% 0% 0%
Mobile Smartphone Client 100% 100% 100% 50% 30%
Mobile Tablet Client 100% 100% 100% 50% 30%
Conferencing Hosts 50% 100% 100% 10% 10%
Multi‐Line, Multi‐Line, Multi‐Line, 2‐Line
Phone Type Speaker, Touch Speaker Speaker or Multi‐Line Single‐Line
Busy Hour Conferencing 50% 20% 20% 2% 1%
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 57No Matter Which Solution You are
Looking At…
Look for unique
requirements or situations
Special group functions?
Advanced Trunking or dial plan functions?
Unique assistant functions?
These may point you toward the vendor
you need to pursue.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 58No Matter Which Solution You are
Looking At…
Determine if you have
“The 70% Solution”
Your organization may “require” multiple
communications vendors to meet its
needs!
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 59No Matter Which Solution You are
Looking At…
Consider your expertise
Are you more of a Cisco shop that a
Microsoft shop or vice versa?
Don’t forget that OPERATIONS will likely be
half of your TCO over time. If you have
significant expertise with one or the other
vendor, you may save time and money
pursuing that vendor.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 60Investigate TCO By Looking at
Alternatives
TCO is only part of the
picture, but it is important
Do some modeling or get
someone else to do it
A close look at
TCO may
move a
director or
manager
toward
compromise.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 61Evaluate Vendors Using a Weighting Process
Define Weigh Compare Crunch
Outcome
Criteria Criteria Vendors Data
25%
5%
14% e57
g
ra 56
e
Jabber ‐ Lync Comparison by Non‐Outlook/Exchange or
Outlook/Exchange and Worker Type ‐ Zoom View
v 55
A
yt 54
ili
10%
ab53 Jabber
ap52
C Lync
ve
it 51
la 50
e
R
49
Non‐Exchange Non‐Exchange Exchange ‐ Exchange ‐
‐ K nowledge ‐ Information Knowledge Information
Worker Worker Worker Worker
4%
Email (Including Desktop Client)
TCO 100 Active Directory
90
80
Customers and Public SharePoint
70
60
50
Close Held Partners 40 Business Applications
30
20
10
25%
Inter‐Business 0 Desktop Productivity Apps
Windows 8 Smart Phones Video Conferencing
Open Smart Phones Telephony
Window s 8 Tablets/Slates PC Desktops
Open Tablets
6% Jabber Lync
11%
Source: PKE Consulting
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 62Building Block Approach
User Profiles are an input to TCO modeling.
TCO modeling is an input to a weighted
decision analysis tool.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 63A Quantitative Example © KelCor, Inc. 2014 64
Model Output
Scenario 1 Scenario 2
Email (Including Desktop Client)
100
TCO Active Directory
90
80
Customers and Public SharePoint
70
60
50
Close Held Partners 40 Business Applications
30
20
10
Inter‐Business 0 Desktop Productivity Apps
Windows 8 Smart Phones Video Conferencing
Other Smart Phones Telephony
Windows 8 Tablets/Slates PC Desktops
Other Tablets
Knowledge Worker ‐ Jabber Knowledge Worker ‐Lync Information Worker ‐ Jabber Information Worker ‐Lync
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 65To get a *free* copy of the weighted decision
analysis model, send an email to Phil Edholm at
pedholm@pkeconsulting.com
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 66Coexistence Strategies
1 Deploy equally and maintain both
You will do this “intentionally”, knowing that this is
likely the most expensive option. Management
does this knowing that the benefits outweigh the
costs!
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 67Coexistence Strategies
1 Deploy equally and maintain both
Inbound call
Session Border Controller
with Active Directory Lookup
You could also do SIP trunking between them
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 68Coexistence Strategies
2 “Mostly eliminate one”
For your “core” UC capabilities across broad job
profiles, standardize on a single communications
and collaboration solution. Only those with
“special requirements” have the other system.”
This will lower some costs; costs for the special
requirements solution will likely be quite high.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 69Coexistence Strategies
3 Run one in‐house & one hosted
Own the “main” UC solution and operate it
yourself. For the special requirements
solution move it to a hosted solution from a
reputable service provider.
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 70Coexistence Strategies
3 Run one in‐house & one hosted
Enterprise Voice
~70 providers
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 71Sometimes choosing between Cisco and
Microsoft is like herding cats…
But it can be done! Video Source: HP/EDS 2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P
k7yqlTMvp8
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 72Thank you
Brent Kelly
+1.435.563.2532
bkelly@kelcor.com
Twitter: @ebkell
http://uccinsider.blogspot.com
www.KelCor.com
© KelCor, Inc. 2014 73You can also read
