Lessons from Covid - Berlin
←
→
Page content transcription
If your browser does not render page correctly, please read the page content below
T H E PA P E R E D I T I O N
ISSUE NUMBER 1
FEBRUARY 2021
“SECURITY BY JULIA”
BY JULIA SCHER
Lessons from Covid
A Message from the Founder THE NEW INSTITUTE, which is both an Insti-
T
tute of Advanced Study and a platform for change.
he coming decade will be crucial for the
course of the world. The unfolding ecolog-
ical catastrophe is a symptom of our fun-
With a strong emphasis on academia, the institute
will become a home for fellows from various walks
of life integrating representatives from government
We are in this together: At the end of the longest
damental failure to prioritize our thoughts
and actions. This failure is manifested in an inter-
connected array of crises. Humanity seems to be
and activism, from media and the arts, from busi-
ness and finance. We believe that only a multitude
of perspectives can help us to find pathways toward
year in living memory, we look ahead. Covid made
more people than ever before aware of the
P H OTO : J E L K A V O N L A N G E N
locked in a cycle of overconsumption leading to an reconfigured societies. Our work will be interdis-
unsustainable exploitation of our natural habitat. If ciplinary and trans-sectoral. It is directed towards
we want to preserve life on earth with dignity and achieving both a fundamental understanding of the
humanity we must fundamentally rethink and re-
configure our values, and subsequently our econo-
mies and democracies.
problems we face and the development of propos-
als for concrete solutions to those problems. We
aim to be innovative in our methods to come up
necessity of change: This is why we have collected
The Covid pandemic – which directly and in-
directly has wrought pain and suffering upon the
world – has demonstrated once again how fragile
with viable solutions and achieve impact.
THE NEW INSTITUTE will be a place that is both
welcoming and nurturing. While we commit to in-
insights and inspiration from eleven outstanding
the systems that we have built are. It has reminded
us not just how interconnected the world is, but
also how widespread the issues we face are, as the
tellectual excellence and academic rigour, we also
remain guided in our work by a set of values: care,
commitment, courage, and creativity. We are cur-
thinkers and practitioners. They offer visions into
health crisis quickly became an economic and so-
cial one too. And yet there have been hopeful signs
of solidarity and a renewal of the constructive role
rently renovating the Warburg Ensemble, a set of
nine classicist townhouses located in central Ham-
burg and opening in the fall of 2021, in order to host
how to think about the future – and how to act.
of the state. The pandemic may also serve to ad- our fellows and provide a unique set of conditions
vance a new and different vision for society. The that allow for some thorough rethinking of conven-
ERCK RICKMERS crisis is appalling, but it’s lessons may be useful tional approaches and commonly held beliefs. Be-
W
in that the same commitment characterizes our cause we urgently need new ideas to jointly shape
urgent battle against the biggest existential threat: our common future. elcome to The Paper Edition, a pub- and the historian Andreas Malm who each see the
climate change. This challenge too requires us to lication by THE NEW INSTITUTE old and the new clashing, but who have very dif-
change not just our industries and technologies but highlighting some of the most im- ferent responses to that clash. There is Christoph
also our ways of thinking and living. portant topics of our time through a Möllers, professor for constitutional law, and the
That spirit of commitment and connectedness ERCK RICKMERS variety of perspectives. This first issue focuses on the philosopher Corine Pelluchon, who think about
also underpins the rationale of Founder T H E PA P E R E D I T I O N lessons learned from the Covid crisis. We believe that what freedom means in this age and time – and as
ISSUE NUMBER 1 the pandemic – a tragedy for millions and a test of a consequence of the necessary transformation of
FEBRUARY 2021 the resilience of societies and individuals – is a stark liberalism at the end of neoliberalism.
warning that we must collectively rethink our priori- Because what is freedom, autonomy, the indi-
ties, our policies, and the way we treat our planet. We vidual in the age of the virus? And how does Covid
Index also believe that this crisis could be an opportunity enlighten us to the human condition, to compas-
to discover and advance new ideas about how to run sion, to death, and – Eugen Baer, Senior Fellow at
our lives and our societies in the 21st century. THE NEW INSTITUTE, offers reflections on this
This pandemic, we believe, is not only a health – to grief? This crisis catapulted the world in warp
1 Audrey Tang Covid and Data page 5 crisis; it is also a crisis of concepts and confidence. speed into a 21st century hesitant to begin – Wil-
For too long, too many people have ignored the signs helm Krull, Founding Director of THE NEW IN-
of a changing world, whose interconnectedness is STITUTE, explores the sense of uncertainty that is
evident not only in the ways we communicate and part of this moment. What all of the interviews and
2 Christoph Möllers Covid and Democracy page 6 engage and do business, but also in the common essays offer is the possibility - and necessity – of a
threat to the very foundations of life. Humans have different society, a nimble humanism that treats the
used and abused nature as if distinct from it, and individual as connected to the world through a web
as if above its laws. Now, nature is telling us some- of responsibilities and sees freedom as collective
3 Corine Pelluchon Covid and Ecology page 7 thing. Because one thing is clear: the coronavirus and rich in potential. It is, as THE NEW INSTITUTE
crisis is not a natural disaster; humans are deeply Senior Advisor Geoff Mulgan says, about our “lived
implicated in creating this pandemic. experience” – and how to move beyond it.
As the climate historian Andreas Malm points This “beyond” is the realm of the arts which for
4 Esther Schipper Covid and Art page 8 out, Covid and the climate emergency “are part us is a guiding influence in the process of transfor-
of the same ecological crisis: you could call them mation - the power of imagination to create visions
global sickening and global heating.” Malm is one of a possible future. So we are grateful and proud
of eleven experts, thinkers and practitioners – voic- to present a selection of world-class art specially
5 Evgeny Morozov Covid and Capitalism page 9 es from philosophy, law, media, history, art, public curated by the gallerist Esther Schipper. Her selec-
policy, academia whose perspective on the pan- tion of works shows that the virus has already been
demic we have asked about. We have aimed to cre- among us for a long time. Featured artists like Pierre
ate a truly multi-perspective view of this existential Huyghe, Julia Scher or Philippe Pareno combine a
P H OTO : S A B I N E V I E L M O
6 Andreas Malm Covid and Climate page 10 moment, employing a constructive mindset that reflection on the dangerous potential of civilization
also guides our work at THE NEW INSTITUTE. We with a perspective on how to live with this danger,
strive for a global perspective, we are optimistic in including it in our understanding of the world – and
our outlook and innovative in our practice, we com- offering a way for how to actually deal with it.
7 Pankaj Mishra Covid and the West page 11 bine academic rigour and the tool of imagination to We know that these are difficult days for a lot of
create transformative future scenarios. people who are suffering from the consequences of
We look beyond the immediate present and try the pandemic, who are lonely or fear for their job,
to envision societies that are more promising, more for their existence. We want to present some per-
8 Yuk Hui Covid and the East page 12 just, more sustainable. The climate crisis is at the spective and inspiration and maybe some hope.
core of our thinking, in this Paper Edition issue as This can be a turning point, a starting point. The
well as in our overall work. THE NEW INSTITUTE future is still ours to create. We are in this together.
was created out of a sense of urgency: we see the
9 Geoff Mulgan Covid and Social Impact page 13 climate crisis as a challenge and a symptom of our GEORG DIEZ
widespread failure to support life on earth. But we Editor-in-Chief
are confident that we can join together to reimagine
the fundamental systems of society, politics, econo- CHRISTOPH GOTTSCHALK
10 Wilhelm Krull Covid and Uncertainty page 15 my and humanity. We must build new and unlikely Executive Board
alliances. We must act now and act boldly.
Covid has shown that this is possible, it has also
proven again that it is necessary. Fundamental
11 Eugen Baer Covid and Grief page 16 change is coming, and we need to shape it, guide
it, foster it, accelerate it - in a democratic, innova-
tive, and just fashion. These are also the lessons
gleaned from the interviews collected for this is-
Featured Authors page 18 sue. There is the Digital Minister of Taiwan, Audrey
Tang, who offers an optimistic account of a possible
Featured Artists page 20 future using the potential of technology for a better
society. There is the writer Pankaj Mishra, the phi-
Our Mission page 22 CORNER BUILDING OF THE NEW INSTITUTE IN HAMBURG losopher Yuk Hui, the tech thinker Evgeny Morozov
3
“We see democracy
itself as a technology” 1
Audrey Tang on Covid and Data
What did Taiwan do right in the fight against ber the years of martial law. And any technology that This new infrastructure that you talk about is
Covid? It is important to understand that this is our threatens to take society back to a more authoritar- in many ways technological? Yes and no. Partici-
second confrontation with this kind of virus. The ian era is an automatic non-starter in Taiwan. We’ll patory self-surveillance relies on broadband as hu-
first time was SARS in 2003, and we just panicked. just say: Do you want to go back to martial law? Do man rights. If there is no broadband access, people
The central government said different things from you want to go back to white hair? can still watch television and listen to radio – but
the municipal governments, locking down an entire they cannot report in real time. The second element
hospital unannounced, all in all 73 people died. In What are non-authoritarian technologies for is media competence and digital competence – ev-
2004, the constitutional court charged the legisla- you? We are very focused on democratizing tech- eryone is essentially media. The twin pandemic, the
ture to review everything we did wrong and set up nologies like free software, open-source or the dis- infodemic, highlighted this necessity to teach people.
a new mechanism, the Central Epidemic Control tributed ledger of the blockchain. We also question
Center, to make sure that the communication is historical rituals of democracy, like a vote every How do you cooperate as a state institution
timely and the collective intelligence, the citizens’ four years. Is that really a good idea? Do you get all with citizens and other societal actors? We
input can reach the CECC. the best input for the democratic institutions? We are building a norm around data that is social sec-
augmented the election process and introduced tor first – neither public sector first, which would
What are the central elements of your present referenda, participatory budgeting, e -petitions, mean state surveillance and authoritarian intelli-
Covid strategy? We have acted along three prin- you name it. gence, nor private sector dominated, which would
ciples: fast, fair and fun. Fast: There is a toll-free mean surveillance capitalism and the dependence
number that anyone can call and report for example
a shortage of masks. Fair: We are ensuring through Democracy is not on multinational companies. We always put people
first in people, public, private partnerships.
the single payer national health insurance that more
than 99,9% of not just citizens, but also residents very different from What is the responsibility of citizens in this
can have access to rationed masks. And finally, fun,
humor over rumor: We battle the infodemic of con- semiconductor crisis? We appealed to the rational self-interest of
the citizens. When you say: Wear a mask to protect
spiracy theories by creating memes and cute figures
like Shiba Inu that people shared much more on so- design – anyone yourself from your own unwashed hand, this is uni-
versally applicable. When you say: Wear a mask to
cial media than conspiracy theories.
can improve it. protect the elderly, then people who don’t live with
elderly people or frankly don’t care will not wear a
Covid is more than a health crisis: How would mask. When we say: Wear a mask to respect each
you describe your role as the Digital Minister? Western democracies seem to be struggling in other, then people who don’t want to respect each
The most important technologies in the Corona cri- this pandemic with a very disparate reaction other wouldn’t wear a mask. Right? Individualism
sis are soap, sanitizers and the physical vaccine, the to the challenge of Covid. What is your take on in light of self-interest is actually collectively speak-
mask. But we did use a lot of novel data applications this? The great thing about democracy is the resil- ing a better strategy than appealing to collectivism.
to battle the pandemic – like an app developed by ience. It relies on people actually having scientific
citizens, civic hackers as we call them here. This understanding and renewing the institution. It will Can you complete this sentence: For me, this
app visualizes the availability of masks at pharma- be better the next time around. Just as Taiwan in is personal because – for me, this is personal be-
cies, enabling people to make evidence-based in- 2004 set up a new infrastructure and did yearly cause everybody’s business needs everybody’s help.
terpolations and base their critique on real data. drills and augmented with the latest digital technol-
ogies. I’m sure that now that you have this societal Thank you. Thank you. Live long and prosper.
Transparency creates trust. One key factor is exposure to a SARS 2.0, you too will do better when
alignment: Everybody can see that pharmacists, to SARS 3.0 comes around. Audrey Tang is the Digital Minister of Taiwan
stay with this example, really share the goal of giv-
ing as many people as possible access to masks. The
other factor is accountability: Not only can every-
body check the app, everybody can suggest better
distribution methods.
“WILDFIRE (MEDITATION ON FIRE)” BY DAVID CLAERBOUT
How do you guarantee privacy? We call it par-
ticipatory self-surveillance. In high risk places like
bars we do require that people make it possible to
be contacted in case of a local transmission. But all
information is distributed and decentralized and
preserves the anonymity valued at such places. “LEONARDO’S SUBMARINE” BY HITO STEYERL
And what exactly is a citizen hacker? In Taiwan,
there is a community called g0v. The idea is that all
the digital services that the government offers can
be forked – which means they can go into different
directions while preserving their core value. This
gets you into the shadow government, which is al-
ways more fun and participatory, right?
What makes the Taiwanese society so open to
new technology, so quick to adapt? One im-
portant factor is that in Taiwan democracy is really
new. The first presidential election was in 1996, the
world wide web already existed. We see democracy
itself as a technology, an applied social technology.
The constitution is something that you can tweak
and change – we already did it five times and are
now considering another change. In a way, democ-
racy is not very different from semiconductor de-
sign – anyone can improve it.
What is the other factor? It is connected to the
first: People who are 40 years old and more remem-
4 5
“Freedom can only
be protected by
long-term thinking”
2 “ We live in a world
which dehumanizes us” 3
Corine Pelluchon on Covid and Ecology
Christoph Möllers on Covid and Democracy
How does the concept of freedom change? The another imagination that explains how we can re-
key notion of this understanding of vulnerability is connect reason and science to the living space. How
our responsibility, the openness to others and the can we give an account of individual emancipation
We are in the year 2030 and look back at the And what could be the consequence? We re- dividual rights and freedom. Then we will see that ability to be concerned by his or her fate. This focus which is not only a way of fighting against each oth-
year of Covid – what will be the verdict of his- ally have to think about long-term planning – not there is an idea of freedom that protects only the on responsibility changes from within our concep- er, but of building in order to eradicate wars, war
tory for democracy? It will be a very mixed verdict as an intrusion upon freedom, but as securing our things you already have. Which is sometimes a bit tion of freedom. The question is how we can find against animals or war against nature or work or
– but democracy might not be the deciding factor freedom. The whole rather bureaucratic process of perverse. Why do you have a right to inheritance, a way of defending and promoting enlightenment war against us. The plight of animals is a kind of
on how to solve the problem of the pandemic. We planning for a coming crisis has to be opened up. but not a right to be educated in kindergarten? We and the pillars of autonomy, democracy and hu- mirror that sheds light upon the fact that our model
see democracies performing very differently. So far, It has to be politicized. We have to compare dif- have to think about how we can institutionalize manity – and at the same time overcome the foun- of development is crazy.
we don’t really have an explanation for that. ferent threats to freedom, different threats to life. collective action in individual rights. We have to in- dations of the ancient enlightenment, the dualism
Only when we have a certain degree of compre- clude collective problems and collective needs into between nature and culture, reason and emotion, If you talk about changing fundamental con-
What could be other explanations? We see hensiveness, when we can compare things, we can our notion of individual rights. human and animals. cepts of individual freedom or autonomy – is
countries like Taiwan performing well. This is an politicize them. the consequence of this to change the struc-
Asian democracy. China also seems to cope very Freedom is also a central argument in the con- This is the main aim of your forthcoming book tures of democracy as well? Of course! Democ-
well. Then again, we don’t really know because Should we think differently about freedom it- cept and design of the market economy that - Enlightenment and the Age of the Living. I racy is a project of society. And a lot of people have
there is no transparency of information. We see self? Freedom is a very fuzzy concept and full of we call capitalism. Yes, capitalism is a key is- think we need a deep critique that explains why the the feeling that they have lost their freedom, that
the United States not really getting much done and internal contradictions. On the one hand, there is sue in the discussion about freedom and I am very ancient enlightenment did not help us to avoid ca- we cannot master everything, that the market and
being highly problematic for democratic reasons the bodily and rather short-sighted concrete free- ambivalent about it. Obviously, there is something tastrophe and led to the destruction of conditions other complicated things determine their lives. But
as well. Europe is performing somewhere in the dom of pursuing our desires and needs. And on the quite liberal in protecting everything you want. But of life, nature and biodiversity. We need to build a we have to understand that we have the power to
middle range. At the end of the day, we will get a other hand, we have to think of collective freedom capitalism is also a problem and one of the reasons society upon the acknowledgment of the equality institute the common good and to change the deep
complex picture about borders, density of popula- – which is much more abstract and long-range. The why we now think in a very short-sighted manner and unity of human beings and not based upon a representation that gives strength to a political and
tion and many other things. pandemic demonstrates that freedom can only be about individual rights. We have a lot of traditions theological order. But to do that, we have to eradi- economic order. Democracy is an ideal, as the phi-
protected by long-term thinking. This is also true for thinking differently about freedom, traditions of cate the vice of civilization which is due to the fact losopher John Dewey said, but also a method. And
Do you see a problem in the democratic politi- for climate change, as the next problem that will republicanism. Not everything has to be reinvented that we kept civilization from nature. I believe we we have to reassess the relation between the public,
cal process itself? There were certainly problems, come. We haven’t so far discussed it so much in to come back to a more inclusive concept of indi- can build a universalism that is not based upon an because it does not speak of people as if the people
“PLAYING DOCTOR” BY GENERAL IDEA
especially with the involvement of parliament, for terms of freedom. I think it’s quite helpful to in- vidual rights and to a more action-oriented concept unrealistic conception of human beings but makes were united.
example in Germany. Normally we have amazingly clude this thought in a more general framework of collective democratic practice as part of a broader room for the other living beings.
high standards when parliament has to be integrat- about what we actually mean by being free. concept of freedom. What do you mean specifically? John Dewey
ed, which decisions have to be made by parliament. What is your main lesson from Covid? We are all How does this translate into political theory? saw the democratic practice not in a top-down ap-
And this was somehow a bit forgotten. There were
very generous clauses that were not really detailed
It seems that in the present liberal discourse
there is a very narrow view of what freedom We have to include vulnerable and we all have a common destiny. A lot
of people have come to realize that they cannot mas-
The fact that we insist on earthly conditions, the
fact that there is intersubjectivity and creativity
proach, but also not in a bottom-up approach in the
naive sense of the term. It requires individuals who
enough to back all the major intrusions into indi-
vidual rights.
really is. When you look at the pedigree of liberal
concepts of freedom, you see that we often use a collective needs into ter everything and that the connection with humans
is the most important thing. This will hopefully drive
from the moment we are born, the fact that to live is
to reform – all of this enlarges the self and provides
are able to organize themselves and have critical
skills. We live in a world in which a lot of people
What is there to learn in this crisis about how
very narrow concept of liberalism. For thinkers like
Thomas Hobbes or later John Stuart Mill in the 19th our notion of us to change our lifestyles and modes of production
because our way of living is not sustainable.
a foundation for a new political theory. say that the future is already written and that we
only have to adapt ourselves to the capitalistic or-
to change or think differently about democ-
racy? We have been talking about sustainability
century, it was quite clear that freedom has some-
thing to do with collective action and being able to individual rights. Are you optimistic? I am working a lot on animal We have to overcome der which will be the end of history. We can change
things – which of course is very demanding. I insist
now for decades – but this crisis has taught us that
sustainability is something very concrete. It’s really
make collective decisions according to a standard
that includes everybody. Collective freedom implies responsibility. The
and ecological issues, and I know that it takes time
for people to change. There are a lot of obstacles. the dualism between upon the individual so that some social and struc-
tural changes can be done in a democratic way in-
about our own freedom. It’s not something abstract.
It’s about us not leaving our homes and being some- This has somehow been forgotten. The pan-
pandemic has brought this discourse about respon-
sibility back. And it is important to frame individual
The main challenge is to fill the gap between the-
ory and practice and to show how it is possible to nature and culture, stead of acting out of fear or coercion.
how imprisoned – because we haven’t been think-
ing sustainably enough. This is an important lesson.
demic has shown that we need to look very closely
at what kind of actions actually are protected by in-
decisions with regard to the pandemic as some-
thing that has to do with solidarity. We are doing
change. This is very challenging.
reason and emotion, One last question. Can you complete this sen-
tence: For me, this is personal because – be-
something together as a democratic community. We
are not looking at the state giving us orders. But it
Can you explain your concept of vulnerability?
Our vulnerability is connected to our corporality humans and animals. cause one of the causes of this crisis is our inter-
action with animals which sheds lights on the fact
“INFLUENCED” BY PIERRE HUYGHE would be a misunderstanding to confuse solidarity – the fact that we eat, depend on air, on water and that we live in a world which dehumanizes us.
with the appeal that you must not criticize the gov- so on. We cannot understand humans in the light Which would be different from liberalism? It
ernment. We have to have an open debate about the of freedom. Freedom is important – but our de- can also be a form of liberalism. I don’t think that Corine Pelluchon is Professor for Philosophy, Paris,
success of our performance. In Germany, we have a pendence on nature and all the other beings sheds the market is an enemy. The problem today is that and future fellow at THE NEW INSTITUTE
strong majority backing the decisions – but we do new light on the human condition. And this has far the government does not set any limits to the mar-
not always have a culture of dissent. That makes it reaching consequences because the foundation of ket. Of course, capitalism is not only an economic
difficult to draw a strict line between people who political liberalism is defined by the human being system, it is also a way of life, a way of thinking, a
are not happy with what’s going on and some crazy as a free moral agent, which is of course very im- way of being with others. My project in my forth-
loonies or those denying the crisis itself. portant and drives us into building society upon coming book is to promote the project of emancipa-
human rights. tion, individual and collective emancipation, which
Is consensus still the goal of democracy, as was linked to enlightenment. But we cannot do it
learned in post-war Germany? We are still trying But? But we have forgotten the relational dimension with the old tools, we have to critically examine why
to cope with polarization. West German society was of the subject and the fact that ecology, justice to- reason turns into irrationality.
a very consensual project. This consensus some- wards future generations and justice towards animals
how ended with the rise of the AfD [Germany’s far- are very important. They belong to us. The subject is Does that irrationality include the destruc-
right political party]. But actually, the AfD is not a not only defined in light of his will or her will to have tion of the very natural basis of our existence?
dissenter. The AfD is system opposition and wants choices and to change them – the subject is never When we deeply think about the ecological chal-
to abolish liberal democracy. The point is: We are alone. Ecology cannot be separated from existence lenge, ecology is not to be reduced to environmen-
still not used to robust conflict within the system. and existence cannot be separated from ecology. tal issues such as the depletion of resources and
We need robust conflict that is still loyal to a mini- climate change. These are very important, but ecol-
mum of liberal democracy. What is the consequence? This insight provides ogy also has social dimensions, mental and moral
the foundation for a different social construct and dimensions, it is linked to a way of innovating with
One last question. Can you complete this sen- humanism – which is not based upon an anthropo- others and assessing the place of human beings in
tence: For me, the problem of the pandemic is centric view of the world but takes into account the nature. The contribution of philosophy is to have a
personal because – I need good reasons not to see diversity of living beings. In the context of the eco- deep understanding of what ecology is.
my friends. logical and sanitary crisis of Covid this means that
there is not less freedom, but a different freedom The role of imagination. In order to fight against
Christoph Möllers is Professor for Constitutional Law, which is reconfigured in light of our responsibility climate change, to reduce your ecological footprint
Humboldt University Berlin, and Senior Advisor at towards others, including animals and future gen- and to stop eating animals, you have to change
THE NEW INSTITUTE erations. inside. The contribution of philosophy is to build
6 7
“A lot of people
started to work with
their hands”
4 “We are going to see
governments embark
on a lot of structural
5
transformations”
Esther Schipper on Covid and Art
Evgeny Morozov on Covid and Capitalism
What was your experience with Covid? I was ac- and is putting in danger the whole project of over-
tually in Wuhan in November of 2019 to visit a col- coming the virus. In the last month, it has not been
lector and came back with pneumonia. And already a very political and more a social and human topic.
in December some people were talking to me about a But as the virus becomes more and more politi- might look extremely efficient to you, built with cer-
strange virus in Wuhan. I started to read a lot about it cized, I can imagine that also artists are getting into tain optimization criteria in mind, by designers and
because I had been so extremely sick. When people a more political debate. architects. And their narrative is that the system is
started to talk about it in Europe in February, it was efficient. But the counter-narrative will show you
a bit like: “Oh, this will never happen to us.” I was Do you see this political focus with climate all the struggles of disabled people in navigating
not really so sure because of what some Chinese change as well? You represent artists who work this public infrastructure – and you will see that it is
friends told me about the situation. This wasn’t at specifically on that subject, like Tomás Sara- actually highly inefficient. The reason why you can
all reported here in the same way as it was there. Al- ceno. In a certain way, Covid and climate change are see that is because you have an extra layer of data
ready at the end of January, an artist living in Beijing related. These events have the power of confronting that wasn’t there before. The notion of efficiency as
sent pictures of people in full protection, like from us with reality. Tomá s Saraceno is really proposing not universally good and true. Efficient for some is
a science-fiction movie. The art world is maybe the new ways of living and traveling. An artist like David highly inefficient for others.
most globalized network of all. Already in the light of Claerbout just made a beautiful film called “Wildfire”,
climate change we started to talk amongst colleagues a forest on fire. It is fascinatingly beautiful and pain- Technology is in that sense a force of enlighten-
about all the art fairs we were doing, sending around ful at the same time. It doesn’t say anything. It’s just ment. What we need to debate is the role of politics
the world big crates, flying all over the place like trees burning. Something which happened over cen- in all of this. I reject the dichotomy between tech-
crazy. And how that was giving us the worst carbon turies. But now it has a completely different message. nology and politics. What passes under the label of
footprint ever. It was really two-faced: One would technology in any given historical era is the result of
be politically very concerned about climate change Do you think things will get back to the way power struggles and hegemony. I am interested in
and working with artists on these topics – but at the they were before the pandemic? I do think that questions like: How can we seriously engage with
same time jump every week into another interconti- quite a few things will get back to the way they were the question of technology? How does technology
nental flight. Covid finally taught us that it was about because people are so bored – not being able to relate to the question of modernity? What is a capi-
time to develop other ways of doing business. travel, not being able to meet with people. On the talist modernity? What would be a non-capitalist
other hand, people also realized that through the modernity? And how does this relate to questions
Later you had Covid yourself, didn’t you? It felt extreme traveling you tend to forget your own com- of autonomy and emancipation and technology?
like nothing else I ever had before. The minute the munity. Now I have been home since March and
symptoms started I knew I had it. start to think: “Oh, Berlin in the end is quite nice. But who is addressing these questions in the
There are good people living here.” political arena? Certainly not the people on the left.
How did it feel? I had extremely high fever, which The reality is that the left doesn’t know how to po-
in my age you don’t have often, from normal to One last question. Can you complete this sen- sition itself towards capitalism, it does not seem to
more than 40 degrees within a couple of hours. It’s tence: For me, this is personal because – be- want to build an alternative system to capitalism. But
strange. You have the impression that you are in- cause it makes me think a lot about who I am and then you end up in this bizarre situation where even
habited by something which is doing things to you. what I am doing. “GIRAFFE” BY ANDREW GRASSIE
some of the socialist leaning candidates in both the
UK and the US suggest that the best solution would
A lot of people around Esther Schipper is a gallerist in Berlin be to rebuild Sweden of the 1970s. The problem is:
Even if you managed to get rid of Jeff Bezos and Elon
me started to work with What did Covid reveal about capitalism? I don’t
think Covid revealed anything we did not already
Has this always been an element of capital-
ism? Marx saw a liberating element in capitalism
Musk through more progressive taxation – all the
questions related to the environmental crisis or the
their hands, started to know about capitalism – a system that makes
certain priorities, and those priorities are based
because it destroys traditional religion – but at the
same time capitalism truncates and limits this lib-
North-South relations wouldn’t disappear.
draw or to build things. mostly on ideals of profitability and cutting costs.
In the case of Covid, we saw it manifested in de-
eration. Hayek was right to say that capitalism facil-
itates discovery. The whole point of a market econ-
A return to the 1970s would mean a return of
the state? One consequence of Covid is definitely
“IMAGEVIRUS” BY GENERAL IDEA bates about what counts as essential work and what omy is to facilitate discovery of new things through that we are going to see governments embark on a
It’s more like you’re possessed by a ghost or doesn’t. The allocation and distribution of value in competition – but you only discover things that lot of structural transformations. They are sitting on
some other being? It’s something here and there capitalism came to the fore. The rich got richer, yes, essentially make it easier for you to sell goods at a a lot of money that comes their way – but in many
and then suddenly the fever goes really high and then and I can feel moral outrage about that – I just don’t profit or consume goods somewhat cheaper. Any cases they don’t have a strong bureaucracy to push
you get super tired and you don’t smell anything, you see it as intellectually very enlightening. other form of knowledge or the capacity to form in- ahead the transformation. They turn to ask for help,
don’t taste anything, and then you suddenly taste stitutions is just not recognized. It is not necessarily and normally they turn to big consulting firms, big
things differently than they are, but you smell things And the triumph of platform capitalism – the suppressed – but it is also not valued. law firms, big tech firms – guidance from the out-
that nobody else smells around you. That’s also an way that digital companies triumphed in this side within the weakened system state agency. This
interesting thing. I still have it sometimes. And a lot
of other people I know who had Corona had that too.
crisis? Again, I think Covid is in this regard a red
herring – it is neither a catalyst or a great revelator. The reality is that the is the result of a very strategic transformation of
bureaucracy in accordance with some action plan
Can art tell us something in this moment, about
But if you were to reframe the question and ask me
whether there are certain problems in capitalism and left doesn’t know how and template. The state gets taken over by consult-
ing firms because it is in the nature of the neoliberal
Covid or the fragility of life? There is something
very fascinating in this idea that you are possessed
whether there are certain ways in which technology
can give you an answer – I would of course say yes: to position itself state to build this private-public partnership. And
Covid is accelerating the process towards consul-
by a virus. A lot of artists worked on AIDS related
themes back in the 1980s and 1990s. Politically this
There are huge structural problems in capitalism.
towards capitalism. tancy capitalism.
had a lot to do with how our healthcare system func- Can you explain the main problems that you One last question. Can you complete the sen-
tions and how we care about each other in a society. see? Most of the larger misunderstandings and Do you believe – like Marx – in the emancipa- tence: For me this is personal because – I have
This time it seems that people think more about the problems with capitalism have to do with the way tory power of technology? What technology of- spent almost a decade trying to understand the ex-
quarantine, the solitude, being at home, not travel- in which it actually blocks and creates obstacles in fers is the ability to reveal things for what they are – act role of socialism as an ideology.
ing. A lot of people around me started to work with our path of what I would call discovery. Capitalism and also a way to experiment with discovering new
their hands, started to draw or to build things. actually makes it harder for us to discover what the things, new forms of being together, new ways of Evgeny Morozov is a tech writer and publisher of “The
world is really like – you can see it clearly when it action. This of course would require a very different Syllabus”
It is interesting that you bring up AIDS. There comes to climate. But you can also see it playing out vision of technology, outside of the purely instru-
was a lot of anger in the art about a society in preventing us from forming institutions through mental, and disclosing what the world is really like.
letting people die. How is it different this time? which we can solve problems together – not insti-
Well, there is this whole movement denying Covid, tutions of the market that are going to accelerate Do you have an example of what you mean?
which doesn’t want to apply any safety measures the problems they created. Think of a city’s transportation system – which
8 9
“Societies will have to
change – or just be doomed” 6 “ These governments
and these ruling classes are
incredibly incompetent”
7
Andreas Malm on Covid and Climate
Pankaj Mishra on Covid and the West
ly attributable to the mobilization by Ende Gelände
and other movements.
How do you translate the energy of these Looking back from the year 2050 – what is the frailties of the political system – it is very difficult tions of the world with its free-market reforms and
movements into real impact? That’s the $10 bil- verdict of history about these Covid months? I to go back to the old ideological construction of the its privatized utilities and services – but all that has
lion question. How exactly do you make contact think the pandemic will be seen as having accelerated West and piece it together. All of these construc- been proven to be utterly false.
with the state? How do you make sure that the de- a process that was already deeply advanced – the de- tions rely upon people believing in them. There is
mands are transmitted into the state apparatus? cline of Western ideological and intellectual hegemo- a loss of credibility and legitimacy. Did India believe what it heard about itself? In
Do you do so by winning seats in parliament and ny. The material decline started a long time ago, but many ways the bluff of India as a great capitalist suc-
become the state yourself? Or do you stand outside the hegemony was still intact through the years of de- You explored the contradictions and delusions cess story has been called. A lot of us knew that all
knocking on the door and demanding that those in- cline. It is about time to stop talking about the West as of the West in your book “From the Ruins of along, but the pandemic has really exposed it. Of
side – whoever they are – change their policy. I’m a cohesive and coherent entity at this point. The West Empire”. What are the colonial roots of today’s course, another fact is that India has an utterly in-
not sure I have a ready recipe for this. is really an invention of the Cold War and should have concept of globalization? If we would pay more at- competent ruling party and a prime minister who
been retired a long time ago, back in the 1990s. tention to anticolonial thinkers of the 19th and 20th posed a lockdown with only four hours of notice. And
In your book about Covid, you talk about war century, it would become clear that what they are then you had that really gruesome spectacle of more
communism and ecological Leninism: Could What is this concept of the West that you talk really talking about is a process of appropriation, of than a hundred million migrant workers who were
you explain these concepts? Ecological Lenin- about? The United States provided the econom- conquest, of dispossession. They are also marvel- completely trapped. They had nowhere to go. This is
ism: That idea is formulated in contrast to old- ic muscle. And Britain was helping out with the ing at the ideological apparatus that is growing up really in, many ways, the end of the India story.
school, reformist social democracy on the one hand ideological and intellectual firepower. And ruling around these acts of violence, seeking to justify those
and anarchism on the other. I argued both are inap-
propriate for this moment. Social democracy of the
classes around the world looked up to these two
countries as essentially models of enlightened gov-
acts, using reason to describe a large part of the popu-
lation as irrational, as quite like children in the inabil- You see a whole
classical kind is inappropriate primarily because
of its temporal form where their premise for social
ernance. But these governments and these ruling
classes are incredibly incompetent as we can see
ity to rule themselves – they need to be led essentially
by white men. You see a whole ideology of progress, ideology of progress
democratic reformism from Bernstein to Swedish
social democracy has always been that we can have
now once more with COVID-19. They have been in-
competent for a very long time, but in the past the
of enlightenment being used to justify imperialism.
and enlightenment
gradual slow, incremental change because time is
on our side while here time is definitely not on our
consequences of their blunders were borne by re-
mote peoples whether it was in Vietnam or in Iraq,
And this changed, not least of all with Covid?
Many more people are able to separate the reality being used to
“A YEAR OF MAGIC, 2020” BY SIMON FUJIWARA
side. We need massive, abrupt change. in Palestine or in Kashmir. from the rhetoric. How is it possible for a black per-
son to be killed in the way George Floyd was? I don’t justify imperialism.
And anarchism? Anarchism, on the other hand, is The idea of the West was always connected to think reading up on the enlightenment or the nobil-
by definition hostile to the state. But I don’t think the ideals of the enlightenment. The notion that ity of the founding fathers is going to be very help- China won. There was never really a race between
that real solutions to any of the crises that we face, the West is an inheritor of the enlightenment or that ful. The whole narrative lie is broken, and it will be India and China. This race was also a creation of the
What is the relationship between Covid and the societies can change. Is there something to are even conceivable without the state being a cen- the west is a sort of custodian of liberal values again very difficult to repair it and reinstate the intellec- Anglo-American propaganda industry. There was a
climate crisis? It is a relationship on quite a few learn from this moment? One lesson is: States tral actor. Now, Leninism has neither of these two can be traced back to the Cold War when there was tual and ideological hegemony of Anglo-America. lot of investment in the idea of India being a coun-
different levels. The coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, is can intervene in business as usual and make quite problems, because Leninism is based, first of all, on this need to create an intellectual pedigree for the free terweight to China and the notion that India’s de-
just one of many instances in recent years of emerg- dramatic incursions into private property and mar- a sense of urgency and impatience. What Lenin did world. We tend to forget that the enlightenment was Can you explain the failure of India in the pan- mocracy can still be our ally. A lot of these notions
ing infectious diseases that leap over into humanity kets and close down certain types of economic ac- during the second half of 1917 was to say again and sharply questioned before the Cold War, before even demic? Like in the United States, the failure to cope were built on fantasy. India can only be an interna-
from the animal kingdoms. This trend is connected tivity, because they’re harmful. This is a real lesson again: “Delay is fatal, we have to topple the provi- the Second World War. It was two famous Germans with the pandemic was part of a larger continuing tional player if it is economically strong. And it is
to a similar trend in rising temperatures. They are that the climate movement and its allies should use sional government, now we can’t wait any longer.” who institutionalized the process of interrogating the failure of the political system, of the bureaucracy, not economically strong. It is not militarily strong.
part of the same ecological crisis: You could call henceforth in its propaganda. On the other hand, enlightenment: Adorno and Horkheimer. of the administrations to respond to an emergency It is not diplomatically strong either. It can´t even
them global sickening and global heating. the hopes that the way out of this COVID-19 cri- How does that translate to today? That’s quite like this. Like in the United States, the public health maintain close relations with its neighbors.
sis will be a transition away from fossil fuels and easy to apply to the present context. Our strategic And present moments of crisis? The pandemic, systems were not up to scratch. India was seen as
What is the precise connection? They share a general green recovery – these hopes so far have task for the climate movement, the Left, progressive the Black Lives Matter protests, the election of Don- an example of a successful free market economy Covid exposed a flaw in the projection of geo-
some driving factors, mainly deforestation, which been disappointed. When you see all the reports forces, is to try to transform those moments of crisis ald Trump have all revealed the weaknesses and that is finally taking its place amongst the great na- political power structures in the 21st century.
is the second most important driver of greenhouse that the G20 economies are pouring 50 or 60 per- where the symptoms become apparent into a politi- We have to examine many of these pre-Covid no-
gas emissions in the world. Global heating will cent more money into fossil fuels than into renew- cal crisis for the drivers and causes of catastrophe. tions. Notions that people in international rela-
drive more zoonotic spill-over, it will push animals ables, you realize: This crisis seems to be another We have to transform something like the extreme tions or in mainstream punditry or in journalism
to migrate, including bats that carry viruses. They lost opportunity. summer of 2018 into a crisis for fossil fuels and the “FEVER” BY ETIENNE CHAMBAUD have been mechanically working with without ever
tend to come into contact with human populations fossil fuel industry. In the case of the present pan- thinking it through. It is a testament to the extraor-
they haven’t been in contact with before. If we want
to avoid more pandemics, we need to stop and re- Societies will have to demic, our task should be to transform it into a cri-
sis for the companies that cause deforestation. That
dinary success of concepts of ideas bred in London
and New York and disseminated through its very
verse deforestation and tackle global heating.
change or will just hasn’t happened yet. influential media and think tanks to the rest of the
world. There is very little independent thinking
What is the underlying cause for both? The rea-
son is our way of dominating nature that is char- be doomed to have more One last question. Can you complete this sen-
tence: For me, this is personal because – I don’t
about many of these issues. Perhaps now with the
intellectual breakup of the West we will have more
acteristic of capitalism - the compulsion of capital
to turn wild nature into fields for producing various of these disasters. want to live like this. The losses we face as even
fairly privileged human beings are quite signifi-
opportunities to think more rationally and clearly
about many of these issues.
commodities. And to control nature and material cant. For example, a life without snow is obviously
production with the weapon of fossil fuels that al- What can be done about this? The break with a meaningful and bearable life, but it’s a loss. Espe- One last question. Can you complete this sen-
lows capital to exercise a high level of control over fossil fuels and business as usual cannot happen cially for the children. tence: For me, this is personal because – it af-
material flows that wasn’t possible with the renew- without an impetus from civil society and from fects three countries that I’m intimately connected
able energies that preceded fossil fuels. movements. This pandemic has been a singularly Andreas Malm is a climate historian in Lund to; and all three countries have done disastrously
difficult time for movements to navigate because in coping with the pandemic – whether it’s India,
Is Covid the sign that we are at a breaking point? everyone has been locked up inside their homes. It Britain or the United States.
The situation is chronic. That doesn’t mean it’s stable. has been extremely hard to make use of the oppor-
Global heating is by definition accumulative, an in- tunity of this crisis. Pankaj Mishra is writer and lives in London
herently deteriorating process. It gets worse until it is
stopped and reversed. And it is not a condition that Is there a lesson to be learned how to trans-
we can live with forever. Clearly the economic sys- late political protest into political action? 2019
tems are pressing so hard against the natural systems showed us to an extent that this is possible. The key
that things snap. Societies will have to change or will decision of 2019 in Germany was the coal commis-
just be doomed to have more of these disasters. sion. Even if the end of coal by 2038 is a completely
unacceptable date for the climate movement, just
There was a lot of discourse, specifically early the fact that there was a coal commission and the
on in the pandemic, that now is the time that following discussions was a success – and is direct-
10 11
“Freedom is what
you find inside” 8 “Society and government
need to act like a single brain” 9
Yuk Hui on Covid and the East Geoff Mulgan on Covid and Social Impact
What is your experience with Covid? I came to since the French Revolution. This is a key ele- don’t feel ashamed. I feel what I say is reasonable. I You have been charged as part of a larger team – What are the main obstacles to this? It is much to that emergent reality and experiment and
Hong Kong early this year when there was suddenly ment of modernity. Hegel for example made a very believe that what I do has a reason. Because I am free funded by the British government – with finding harder in some parts of the world, partly for reasons be nimble about it. Exactly. The core of the future
this outbreak. I have been stuck here since then. useful distinction between Willkür, the arbitrary, from shame. And everything I do is proper to norms. policy answers to the global pandemic. What is of political economy. If you have more privatization, state is the systematic organization of learning at
and Wollen, the will – this constitutes a break from your thinking on Covid and what’s ahead? This then all of that data will be proprietary to companies multiple levels – starting at the very micro level of a
Why do you think some Asian countries did the Greek concept of democracy because of the lat- And in the Taoist tradition? For the Taoist, the crisis has been the biggest real time simultaneous – and it’s very difficult to orchestrate it equally. If you school with things like study circles where teachers
better than most Western countries in dealing ter’s emphasis on individualism and the preference idea of freedom is different because freedom is challenge to governance and policy that anyone can have very strong privacy fears, then obviously no one regularly think about what’s working and what isn’t,
with the pandemic? There are many factors, many of the Willkür. This continues until today, that the nothing calculative. You can only feel free when you remember. It has had extremely uneven responses wants to share data. Europe has gone in that direc- discussing new research that might be relevant to
reasons. I can only offer speculations. In Germany question of freedom oscillates between a freedom understand that what you are doing or what you are all over the world, the successes and the failures of tion, in an understandable reaction against Google them. The equivalent in hospitals is the role of work
for example, there are protests against the harsh that is made possible by law and the arbitrary that striving for is nothing significant, in comparison for which are complicated. In my view, they don’t fit and Facebook. But it risks really falling behind in centers and new institutions to synthesize evidence
measures – you probably don’t find this in China, is opposed to law. example to the universe or with nature. very well with a particular regime types or culture terms of social, public, collective intelligence. That to feed into how public services are working. Parlia-
in Japan and in Korea. Another reason could be the types – they are much more explained by particular has become very clear through this crisis. ments also should be much more consciously or-
strong value attributed to the family in East Asian
countries, this much stronger sensibility of respon- You can only feel free What does this mean for your actions? When
you are trying to pursue something big, there is al-
decisions by political and other leadership.
Is this a lasting legacy of this crisis, Europe
ganizing learning exercises, critically scrutinizing
what worked, what didn’t, when was money spent
sibility, of moral responsibility that is connected to a
self-constraining act. when you understand ways something larger than what you are looking for.
And what you are looking for is always only relative.
What kinds of decisions? It is fascinating to see
so many governments moving very rapidly to cre-
falling behind? The big issue is how to help so-
ciety and government together to act more like a
well or badly? And the media should be become a
thoughtful, critical part of that learning system.
These are social values – is there a philosophi- that what you are doing You can never arrive at the absolute because if you
thought that you can arrive at the absolute, it’s only
ate entirely new welfare states almost from scratch,
providing income support, employing a whole raft
single brain – to observe, to analyze, to think, to act,
to learn very fast through a crisis, but then to apply What would that mean on a very macro lev-
cal dimension to this that might be connected
to traditions of Eastern and Western thinking is nothing significant. an illusion. The idea to be free is to be free from the
illusion. This of course is very different from a Hege-
of technologies to support that, getting involved in
the details of business support and loans and credit.
exactly the same mindsets and methods to cutting
carbon or tackling jobs, inequality or preparing for
el? I am trying to get the UN to think about how to
put knowledge and learning at its core, not money.
on the subject of freedom? This is a very big and lian idea of the search for the absolute. As never before, mass testing and use of data were all the challenges of aging. The great governance The institutions that were created in the 1940s, the
very complicated subject. In Confucian or Taoist Is the discourse about the individual very dif- organized in highly creative ways, particularly in question of the next ten years is indeed: Which World Bank and IMF, made it obvious that finance
thinking the concept of freedom as political free- ferent in Eastern philosophy? While you see that What is the consequence of these concepts East Asia – ways which Europe can’t remotely han- parts of the world will be up for doing that? dominated the global institutions and the preven-
dom is not present. This goes back to the social- there is an elaboration on the concept of freedom of freedom for society or government or poli- dle, for all sorts of reasons. tion of war. Now we should have similar organiza-
political structures of the empire and the emperor in the West and an anticipation of the individualis- tics? This question is connected to what is called This would mean a massive reconfiguration tions of global learning.
– the individuals are subjects of the emperor. The tic society to come as a manifestation of European a good life. In China, if you say you have a good life What can be learned both from success and of the institutional setup of the state. A fairly
notion of freedom refers more to the freedom one modernity – in China the question of freedom is not it means that you have some kind of stability. You failure? I am looking at how some of those methods significant restructuring, yes. The principle is that Do you see all of this as connected to your
finds inside, expressed in art, in poetry, in painting a central political discourse until the contemporary have a family, you have a house. And then you can can be applied to other tasks like climate change or almost all the state knowledge and data should be insistence on our need for new ways of so-
for example or even in food culture. period. You see the difference. start, you can develop yourself. This again is con- preparing for dramatic changes in the labor market. open and shared, not a monopoly. What I am sug- cial imagination? A lot of what I’m talking about
nected to the history of China with its many wars This year, we’ve seen already faster changes to the gesting is certainly very different from the neoliber- is truth – truth about the present and the past,
In Europe on the other hand, you would find Could you explain how internal freedom is con- and changes of dynasties and natural disasters, lack use of digital online in schools than ever before. al state – and also very different from the traditional the orchestration of knowledge and truth in new
freedom not so much within, but externally, nected to the concept of the world, the out- of food and frequent flooding. So freedom in the Many things, which probably should have happened socialist state. Indeed, most of the 19th and 20th forms, mainly as commons. That is the single most
freedom as political freedom, a central element side? In Confucian culture, freedom means that you sense we understand today is not the main concern, a generation ago, have been forced to happen by the century traditions across the political spectrum are important task of our time because we’re facing
but the imagination of a good life. crisis. And there will be big, big gains in terms of not very helpful for the 21st century. enemies who want to do the opposite, in politics,
productivity and quality of service from all of this. in the media, and sometimes in business, too. But
“WILDFIRE (MEDITATION ON FIRE)” BY DAVID CLAERBOUT How is all of that connected to a certain un-
derstanding of technology as you describe it in For now, the stress on both societies and citi- In the 21st century, we also need a capacity to imagine – and that has
different organizing principles because there is no
your book about technology in China? It is im-
portant to understand that modernization in China
zens seems to be enormous. We do see a mental
health crisis, with lots of evidence around the world mental health, anxiety, truth about the future. Nobody knows what will
happen in 10 or 20 years. I see these as comple-
is much faster than Europe. This is particularly true
if you look at the speed of technological develop-
of high levels of anxiety, loneliness, depression. We
need to see what is working in terms of trying to mit- loneliness are public mentary but distinct.
ment, in the development of AI and so on. This pro-
cess of modernization creates a rupture between
igate those and provide new forms of support with a
very localized and online form of eldercare. The cri- matters. You need to envision change to make it happen.
And the problem of our current governance is that it
what is modern and what is tradition. Of course, sis has shown huge vulnerabilities and weaknesses is not good at that. There are some exceptions like
there is also a rupture in Europe, but this rupture in many countries in how care for the elderly is or- Including social democracy? The traditional so- Finland which has long had its committee of the
implies also a continuity because it is produced ganized. It is often two generations behind in terms cial democratic vision didn’t say that much about future. Singapore has its foresight teams. But most
within itself – for example by the epistemological of basic use of data and technology – or indeed sen- knowledge. It was more about a functional delivery democracies have almost no capability of thinking
and methodological changes in the 17th century sitivity to the lived experience of old people. state with a view on economic policy and welfare. 20, 30, 40 years into the future.
and as a consequence modern science and indus- But it was operating in a pre-digital era. These is-
trialization. Data is core to tackling some of these issues. sues didn’t really arise. The social democratic states Would you say that Covid exposed on the one
The aim is to draw on a whole range of tools, some also tend to be quite weak on human lived experi- hand existing faults and failures of societies
And how did this rupture affect China? The dif- indeed very technology-based. And we are trying to ence, the very subjective as well as the objective. It and on the other hand opened up the space for
ference is that in China the rupture comes from create a model of very rapid interaction between the was assumed that mental health was a private mat- imagination or actual change? I don’t know yet.
the outside, from the USA, from the UK, Germany, decision makers who are having to act in real time ter, whereas physical health was a public matter. In I think many people will try and interpret the crisis
Western countries. It is a historical process that and the researchers who usually work on much the 21st century, mental health, anxiety, loneliness with their existing frames. If they’re conservatives,
leads to the domination yet not so much in the in- slower timescales. We are trying to ensure that the are public matters and actually vital for rethinking that will prove their views, if they are social demo-
vention of technology, but more in the use of tech- questions which are really being faced by the front what a welfare state should be for the future. crats, it will prove the views they had anyway. But
nology. In China, you may find farmers selling ag- line are being adequately answered by the vast re- in some parts of the world, it will unlock and speed
ricultural products on the street, you don’t pay him sources of global research. After the epidemic, this These are huge shifts in both what’s thought of up innovation and change. It will require political
in cash, you pay with your smartphone. This is a can be applied to lots of other fields where there is as the goals of the state and the means the state leaders who are able to understand the meaning
significant phenomenon. There is a need for speed still quite a big gap between the knowledge creators uses to achieve those goals. Is there a name for of it all. And that’s the crucial missing bit – politi-
and a desire for speed in China. and the knowledge users. this, a theory? It’s new and it’s emerging and there cal parties and leaders who can make sense of this
isn’t a very clear theory of it. But in reality, in the past crisis, with a critical intelligence to see the needs
Is the quintessence of what you are saying Knowledge is the key: Do you see the chance to the state always evolved in practice ahead of the the- of the future.
that the answer to Covid is not so much in sci- close that gap, to use that momentum to drive ory. The job of the theoreticians is to try and make
ence and technology but within oneself? Sci- social innovation in a much broader sense? The sense of what is happening, with a much more data One last question. Can you finish that sentence:
ence and technology are of course very important. task is to orchestrate the data, the knowledge, the intelligence driven state than that of 50 years ago, at For me, this is personal because — because I
But I think it is also how people value themselves intelligence of the society in a much more system- a time when the richest companies in the world are joined a university two weeks before it shut down
and how people view the relation between people atic way. This is what has happened to an extent mainly based on data and knowledge. You can see and had to go online and our whole working model
and the virus and the relation between people and in democracies like South Korea and Taiwan and that in East Asia, but also Estonia to a degree, Fin- has changed; because in my neighborhood the crisis
people. There is a kind of value and orientation that also in China – the conscious use for public pur- land and elsewhere: What they’re doing in reality is forced a reinvention of horizontal community sup-
is already present in the social structure and use of poses of almost any kind of knowledge which could way ahead of what the professors are talking about port structures that I have never seen before; and
technology. be useful. That includes credit card data, mobile in universities who often have no sense of that at all. because tomorrow my mother gets the vaccine.
phone data, it means linking up all the doctors and
Yuk Hui is a philosopher living in Berlin and Hong nurses and tapping into their real time experience Your vision is that of a learning society, both on Geoff Mulgan is Professor at University College Lon-
Kong of what’s working and what isn’t working. an institutional and a private level – to adapt don and Senior Advisor at THE NEW INSTITUTE
12 13
You can also read
