Defence Conference Franco-British Council 2018
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Franco-British Council
Defence
Conference
2018
A Review
London, 19-20 September 2018
Franco-British Defence Conference // A Review
Programme The Franco-British Conference Proceedings
Council Defence INTRODUCTIONS. Following a warm welcome from
our host HE Mr. Jean-Pierre Jouyet on Wednesday
Wednesday 19 September (1900 – 2130)
Conference evening, the FBC’s Rt Hon Dominic Grieve QC MP
articulated the depth and enduring relevance of the
Franco-British relationship. On Thursday morning
WELCOME ADDRESSES: The seventh edition of the Franco-British M. Philippe Peirs, speaking on behalf of Baroness
Tessa Blackstone, Chair of the FBC, described the
HE Mr. Jean-Pierre Jouyet, Ambassadeur de France au Royaume-Uni Council Defence Conference was generously history of the FBC and its commitment to the Defence
Rt Hon Dominic Grieve QC MP Conference before introducing our prestigious panel
hosted within the London Residence of the of speakers. It was clear that, despite short-term
KEYNOTE SPEECHES: French Ambassador to the United Kingdom political and financial challenges, the appetite for
cooperation remains as strong as ever and that the
A new relationship between Defence and Security. on 19 and 20 September 2018. Since the wider community appreciate the importance of events
General Sir Nicholas Carter, Chief of the Defence Staff facilitated by the FBC.
Lancaster House Treaties in 2010, the
Monsieur le Général d’Armée François Lecointre, Chef d’Etat-Major des Armées
Franco-British Council (FBC) has regularly KEYNOTE SPEECHES. The FBC was delighted that
Historical Perspective - A hundred years later. defence ministers, service chiefs, national armament
What did the UK and France learn from the First World War about working together? organised this event which has established directors and heads of industry were willing to share
Colonel Armel Dirou, French Military Attaché, London their time to ensure that discussions could not have
itself as a networking platform of reference been more timely or better informed.
RECEPTION for Franco-British relationships in the defence
Rt Hon Gavin Williamson MP, Secretary of
Thursday 20 September (0900 – 1530) sector. The conference brings together State for Defence and Madame Florence Parly,
Ministre des Armées spoke about the historical
representatives from the most senior level of
INTRODUCTION: depth of the Franco-British relationship highlighting
military, government, industry and academia that, notwithstanding historic incursions into each
Philippe Peirs, Trustee of the Franco-British Council and Conference Steering Committee other’s territories, we have been the closest of allies
from both sides of the Channel. Its objectives for more than a hundred
KEYNOTE SPEECHES: are to forge new relationships and reinforce years. Both speeches felt
designed to reassure the
Ministerial view of the bilateral relationship. mutual understanding between the two audience of the enduring
Rt Hon Gavin Williamson MP, Secretary of State for Defence political relevance of the
Madame Florence Parly, Ministre des Armées countries' defence communities. The event is relationship (shared values
and shared strategic interest)
supported by the UK and French Ministries of
The place of the Franco-British relationship in and of its current vitality
Capability Development and Acquisition. Defence and, in 2018, was funded by the UK (operational commitments,
Sir Simon Bollom, Chief Executive, Defence Equipment & Support particularly in Mali, progress
Joël Barre, Délégué Général pour l’Armement Ministry of Defence together with generous on the Combined Joint
Expeditionary Force (CJEF),
commercial sponsorship from MBDA. Rt Hon Gavin Williamson MP,
The Industrial perspective. industrial programmes
including missiles and mine Secretary of State for Defence
Antoine Bouvier, Chief Executive Officer, MBDA
countermeasures, as well as recent developments in
NETWORKING LUNCH highly sophisticated cooperation on areas including
intelligence, cyber and nuclear). The Ministers each
ROUND TABLE DISCUSSIONS: noted continuing progress on the implementation of
the Lancaster House Treaty.
Issues of common legal concern for the UK and France. Madame Parly’s speech drew
particular recognition for its
What does Industry’s experience bring to the bilateral relationship and how can the sharpness and her willingness
interaction be managed more effectively? What deductions for bilateral cooperation to describe challenges and
can be drawn from the latest national reviews? potential divergences (BREXIT,
managing the transatlantic
How can the UK and France best work together to address the challenges posed by relationship and facing
the new strategic environment? Russia) while expressing her
confidence in the Franco-
Readiness for Intervention. How can the UK and France coordinate more closely to British ability to overcome
prepare for and to respond to crises? them. The overall tone was Madame Florence Parly,
that of a willingness to pursue Ministre des Armées
cooperation at the highest
level and insistence that it should be reflected at all
levels of their national defence structures.
1
2
Franco-British Defence Conference // A Review
General Sir The two National
Nicholas Carter, Armaments Directors
Chief of Defence (NADs), Sir Simon RECEPTION AND
Staff and Monsieur Bollom, Chief Executive NETWORKING LUNCH.
le Général Officer of Defence
d’Armée François Equipment & Support A reception provided by the French Embassy,
Lecointre, Chef and Joël Barre, following Wednesday evening’s speeches,
d'Etat-Major des Délégué Général pour was complemented by an extended lunch
Armées. We were l’Armement, noted the break on Thursday. Feedback following the
honoured to have value of the conference conference highlighted the importance and
the two most senior not only in bringing value that participants attribute to these
uniformed officers Sir Simon Bollom them together for a networking opportunities.
of French and bilateral meeting but also in facilitating meetings
British armed forces with key representatives of Defence Industry. They
General Sir Nicholas Carter share their views on each outlined the strategic context of planning and
the health of the bilateral defence relationship, setting resourcing defence acquisition. They acknowledged
the tone for the discussions ahead. Général Lecointre that while BREXIT will inevitably change the UK’s
spoke about the “brotherhood in arms”, shared values relationship with Europe
and respect that grew out of mutual experiences in collectively, the core
the First World War and subsequent conflicts. General reasons for the bilateral
Carter described the London-Paris link as vital to relationship between
defence. It was felt that there was clear enthusiasm France and the UK will
and commitment in their remain unchanged.
analysis of progress Their contribution was
that has been made in commended for their
exchange programme and frankness as both spoke
transition from concept openly and realistically
to operational readiness about the status of
for the CJEF. Exchanges current programmes, Joël Barre
of deputy commanders noting not only challenges
at divisional level, the but also significant progress with key programmes
recent deployment of UK nearing maturity.
Chinook Helicopters in
Monsieur le Général d’Armée direct support of French Antoine Bouvier, Chief
François Lecointre forces in the Sahel and Executive of MBDA and
the deployment of French troops in eFP operations conference sponsor,
led by the UK provide tangible evidence of mutual concluded the keynote
confidence. The European Intervention Initiative speeches by presenting
(EI2) and cooperation on humanitarian operations his thoughts on the
seem to be areas where the strength of the Franco- industrial view of the
British military relationship will continue to underpin bilateral relationship.
international operations conducted either bilaterally or In stating how easy it
as part of a wider partnership. would be to overlook
the benefits and merits
Antoine Bouvier of the Lancaster House
Treaty, he emphasised the importance of the mutual HISTORICAL
dependency reflected in the Inter-Governmental PERSPECTIVE.
Agreement (IGA) and the imperative of holding true
to the long-term vision. He urged political leadership Marking the 2018 Centenary
to take the decisions necessary to support industrial of the Armistice, Colonel
specialisation. He described development and Armel Dirou, French Military
enlargement of centres of excellence as the crucial Attaché and King’s College
next-step, that would keep European defence industry London Research Fellow,
ahead of their competitors. He offered the success of presented a thought-provoking
the MBDA model as an asset and exemplar of what reflection of France and Britain’s
can be achieved when both industry and government collaboration during the First
agencies commit to a shared objective. World War.
3 4
Franco-British Defence Conference // A Review
Round-Table ROUND-TABLE 1. ROUND-TABLE 2.
Discussions Issues of common legal concern for the UK
and France.
What does Industry’s experience bring to the
bilateral relationship and how can the interaction
Participants also explored
the need for procurement
be managed more effectively? What deductions for chains to continue to
Introductions by Claire Legras, Directrice des Affaires bilateral cooperation can be drawn from the latest improve their ability and
The Round-Table discussions Juridiques du Ministère des Armées, and Isabel national reviews? willingness to stimulate
Letwin, Director, MOD Legal Advisers, Government
provided the opportunity for Legal Department set the scene for a frank and open
small and medium sized
Statements by IGA businesses (SMEs) so that
participants to review in detail four discussion. This session focussed on three areas: François Mestre, Chef they can benefit from the
de Service, Service des innovation offered in these
issues that had been identified Judicialisation, where affaires industrielles areas. The perception
there is concern that
by the French and UK MODs as judicialisation diminishes
et d’intelligence Richard Berthon
of procurement systems
économique, DGA, and process being
relevant to the development of military power and
Richard Berthon, biased towards large national defence companies was
military’s ability to do highlighted as impeding access to SMEs. Participants
current policy and work-strands its jobs, particularly with Director Strategic
described the merits of French and UK schemes
respect to the implications Programmes, and
for further action. Each session of expeditionary and GDA Éric Charpentier,
designed at accelerating some procurement cycles
and incorporating
was introduced and moderated by intervention operations. François Mestre Adjoint du sous-chef innovation quicker in
Interventions contrasted PLAN set the scene defence programmes
authoritative senior speakers: Wing Claire Legras the difference between for lively and wide-ranging discussion. There was (UK’s rapid capabilities
the pace of intervention interest in the understanding where each nation
Commander Calvin Bailey and facilitated constitutionally by the French President’s would be prepared to take risk in the development of
programmes and France’s
instruments now sitting
Capitaine de Frégate Julien Lalanne prerogative and the perceived “arms race” to increase capabilities, with recognition that decisions on where under the aegis of the new
scrutiny within the UK Parliament prior to authorisation not to invest as important as where investment is Agence de l’innovation de
de Saint-Quentin, both members commitment. Discussions also covered the implications made. There was agreement that areas such as modern Défense) and confirmed
for serving and former military personnel being subject unmanned fighter aircraft and missile programmes
of the Franco-British Young to re-investigation of historical cases. There was must be collaborative if the UK and France are to make
the appetite to learn and
work together in that field.
Leaders Programme. recognition that each nation’s penal codes should be best use of limited resources and fulfil their sovereignty Éric Charpentier
developed to protect service personnel; and freedom of action objectives.
Detention (especially
extra-territorial and
non-international
conflict contexts). The
constraints engendered
within Articles 2 and 5
of European Convention
on Human Rights (ECHR)
were debated as they
highlight extra-territoriality
Isabel Letwin
as an exception that has
expanded the differences
between criminal courts and the ECHR. There is a view
that specialist personnel, separate from those involved
in kinetic operations, may be required to conduct
detention and questioning;
Automation of weapons systems. Discussion centred
on the difference between a public perception of
Unmanned Autonomous Vehicles (UAVs) as autonomous
“killer robots” as opposed to the reality of human
analysis and intervention in the system.
The participants in this round-table session agreed the
importance of establishing a Franco-British legal working
group to tackle the key issues; the need for a legal
working group to complement joint military operations,
and the need to update the Lancaster House Treaty to
reflect the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. Image (left):
Name
Name
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Franco-British Defence Conference // A Review
ROUND-TABLE 3. ROUND-TABLE 4.
How can the UK and France best work together to Recommendations made by the participants in this Readiness for Intervention. How can the UK and also that CJEF should be a necessary catalyst for the
address the challenges posed by the new strategic round-table session addressed four areas: France coordinate more closely to prepare for and rest of Europe to contribute to our collective security.
environment? to respond to crises? As part of this, CJEF was seen as fundamental to EI2
• The need for Franco-British cooperation to capability reflecting both Britain and France’s leading
Alice Guitton, Directrice be more proactive and practical, looking for Contre-Amiral Didier Piaton, Adjoint du sous-chef roles as guarantors of European peace. Looking to
Générale des Relations opportunities and quick-wins in the areas of cyber, OPS, and AVM Andrew Turner, Assistant Chief of the future it was recognised that CJEF will enable
Internationales et de automation and an increased focus on a younger Defence Staff (Operations) opened this discussion both nations to remain Tier One Defence Security
la Stratégie, and Peter generation of leaders. acknowledging the significant progress that both organisations. The key strength of the CJEF being that
Watkins, Director nations have already made towards the CJEF. as both nations may be perceived to have become
General Strategy and • The need to do more together to advance/invest They invited comments on “how we are doing” sub-critical in size, CJEF enables both nations to retain
International, provided in military education. in order to define what still needs to be done to a shared critical mass.
authoritative and achieve all the stated missions of the CJEF, including
insightful introductions • The importance of (further) overcoming national Full Operating Capabilities, by 2020, and also to The participants in this discussion highlighted the need
to this discussion. sensitivities relating to cyber and intelligence understand how the CJEF will drive the European to communicate more effectively the message about
They emphasised sharing. intervention initiative capability. Franco-British engagement (specifically CJEF) under
commonalities including: shared values, a unique the Lancaster House Treaty. They identified the target
global perspective/ambitions based on our history, • The need to explore the case for a treaty to Discussion recognised that ongoing bilateral audiences as partner nations (in NATO, the EU and
responsibilities as nuclear states, seats on United redefine the UK’s relationship with the EU. commitments are fully within framework as conceived other international organisations); the general public;
Nations Security Council, recognition of importance under the Lancaster House Treaty. It was agreed that and the wider defence community beyond those that
of multilateralism, and respect for law and rules-based current challenges, intelligence sharing, C&I system are immediately involved. It was recommended that
order. Discussion encompassed European strategic are real strategic issues that would endure as CJEF future development and investment in CJEF should
autonomy, the nature of Franco-British cooperation, the progresses towards Full Operating Capabilities in aim to ensure that, on a collaborative basis, France and
importance of modernisation/innovation and flexibility, 2020. Contributions noted that although the Lancaster the UK retain full-spectrum capability. Participants also
the place of the US alongside the bilateral relationship, House Treaty is recognised as a huge strategic success identified the need for leadership (political and military)
the challenges posed by terrorism and migration, and at the intergovernmental level and that it has created to realise the potential of using CJEF on cooperative
the need to modernise the rules-based system. unity of effort both at strategic and tactical levels, deployments, to conduct missions such as the suring
wider awareness is not as good as it should be. On an up of elections as well as being held at readiness to
international perspective, it was recognised that the deal with the hardest and most representative missions
CJEF must be better understood by partner nations (particularly mission 9).
and allies as a complementary capability to NATO and
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Franco-British Defence Conference // A Review
Participants in the Franco-British Council Rt Hon. Dominic Grieve MP
House of Commons. Franco-British
Lord Edward Llewellyn
British Ambassador to France
Mr. Ben Sanders
UK Ministry of Defence
Defence Conference 2018
Council
Mr. Mike Maiden M. François-Joseph Schichan
Mme. Alice Guitton Industry - SME Embassy of France in London
DGRIS
IPETA Mélanie Malnou-Duviella Vice-Amiral Henri Schricke
Air Vice Marshal Bruce Headley DGA EMA
Wing Commander Andre Mr. David Bond Capitaine de Frégate Julien de DJW
Adamson Financial Times Saint Quentin Mr. Ciaran Malone Cdr. Thomas Secher
UK Ministry of Defence Franco-British Council Young Col. Patrice Hugret UK Ministry of Defence UK Ministry of Defence
Col. Chris Borneman Leader Embassy of France in London
Mr. Chris Allam British Embassy, Paris Mr. Jonathan Marcus Mr. Kim Sengupta
MBDA Mr. Christopher Deacon Mr. Will Jessett BBC The Independent
M. Antoine Bouvier Franco-British Council UK Ministry of Defence
Mr. James Allibone MBDA Ms. Kate Marshall Mr. Robert Sroka
MBDA ICA Gaël Diaz-de-Tuesta Mr. William Johnson Franco-British Council UK Ministry of Defence
Captain Xavier Breitel DGA UK Ministry of Defence
Mr. Stuart Andrew MP Royal College of Defence Studies M. Olivier Martin Mr. Robin Southwell
UK Ministry of Defence Col. Armel Dirou Mr. Paul Johnston MBDA NEXTER
Ms. Alison Brettle Embassy of France in London UK Foreign and Commonwealth
Mr. Alasdair Ambroziak Assistant - Franco-British Council Office Mme. Pauline Massart Col. Vincent Tassel
THALES UK Mr. Mike Duckworth CEIS UK Ministry of Defence
Mr Jean-Jaques Bridey NEXTER SE Jean-Pierre Jouyet
Mme. Camille Angué Assemblée Nationale Embassy of France in London Wing Commander Scott Magee Commissaire en chef Pascale Têtu
Embassy of France in London M. Alexandre Escorcia Joint Forces Command EMA
M. Jean-Christophe Bund Ministre des Affaires étrangères - Mr. Francis Kearney
Col. Graeme Armour NEXTER Rolls-Royce IGA Francois Mestre IGA Vincent Thomassier
CAPS
UK Permanent Joint Headquarters DGA DGA
Mr. Christian Cambon, Senateur Ms. Anna-Marie Evans Dr. Glenn Kelly
Mr. Simon Atkinson Senat Rolls-Royce Ms. Alexandra Moinier Brig. Rob Thomson
DE & S
British Embassy, Paris Franco-British Council British Embassy, Paris
Mr. Alistair Cameron Dr. Jonathan Eyal Mr. Mark Kenyon
Mme. Julie Augusto British Embassy, Paris Joint Forces Command Contre-Amiral Luc Pagès Air Vice Marshal Andrew Turner
RUSI
DGRIS Embassy of France in London UK Ministry of Defence
General Sir Nicholas Carter Mr. Nick Fiorenza Mr. Jeremy Kitt
Mr. Selcuk Aydin UK Ministry of Defence UK Ministry of Defence M. Xavier Paitard IGA Jean-Christophe Videau
Jane's Defence Weekly
Assistant - Franco-British Council MBDA DGA
Rear Admiral Simon Charlier Mrs. Lucy Fisher Capitaine de Frégate Philippe
Mr. Eric Bagration-Davidoff MBDA Ministre des Armées, Florence Capitaine de corvette Emmanuel
The Times Kossowski
Industry - SME Parly Vignet
GDA Eric Charpentier EMA
Dr. Robert Foley Ministre des Armées UK Ministry of Defence
Wing Commander Calvin Bailey EMA King's College London Aspirant Myriam Ksas
Franco-British Council Young Mr. Philippe Peirs Captain (Navy) Philippe Vitel
Mr. Victor Chavez EMA
Leader Mr. Richard Ford Franco-British Council PJHQ
THALES UK DE & S Général William Kurtz
IGA Joël Barre Contre-Amiral Didier Piaton Mr. Oliver Waghorn
Capitaine de Vaisseau Fabrice SAFRAN
DGA Rt Hon. Mark Francois MP EMA BAE Systems
Coheleach House of Commons, Defence M. Olivier Landour
Mme. Emma Baustert EMA M. Arnaud Poidatz Mr. Peter Watkins
Committee DGRIS
SGDSN MBDA DG S&I, UK Ministry of Defence
Ms. Jenny Collier Mr. Simon Funnell Mr. Angus Lapsley
M. Olivier-Remy Bel Interpreter Sir Andrew Pulford Rt Hon. Gavin Williamson MP
UK Ministry of Defence UK Foreign and Commonwealth
Franco-British Council BAE Systems Secretary of State for Defence
Ms. Françoise Comte Office
Wing Commander Yves Gagnon
Rt Hon. Richard Benyon MP Interpreter Capitaine de Vaisseau Luc Raynal Mr. Stephen Willmer
EMA IPETA Sébastien Le Bouter
NATO Parliamentary Assembly Embassy of France in London UK Ministry of Defence
Mr. David Coyle DGA
Mr. Frank Gardner
M. Philippe Bernard British Embassy, Paris M. Stephane Reb Col. (Retd) Geoff Wright
BBC Col. François-Yves Le Roux
Le Monde MBDA Franco-British Council
Mr. Paul Crawley EMA
Mme. Joëlle Garriaud-Maylam,
Mr. Richard Berthon MBDA UK M. François Revardeaux Mrs. Georgina Wright
Sénateur Général d'armée François
UK Ministry of Defence Embassy of France in London Chatham House
Ms. Dawn Cunningham-Martin
Senat Lecointre
EMA Lord Peter Ricketts Ms. Barbara Wilson
Prof. Sven Biscop DE & S Mr. Teymouraz Gorjestani
Europe in the World Programme House of Lords. Franco-British Interpreter
Ms. Zoë Daligault
Embassy of France in London Mme. Claire Legras
Council
Ministère des armées
Sir Simon Bollom Interpreter Mrs. Anne-Marie Gray de Dax
DE & S M. Nicolas Roche
Prof. Christian de Boissieu
Interpreter Mrs. Isabel Letwin
Ministère des Affaires étrangères
UK Ministry of Defence
Mme. Aurélie Bonal Franco-British Council
Embassy of France in London
9
Contact
Franco-British Council
c/o The British Library
96 Euston Road,
London, NW1 2DB
info@francobritishcouncil.org.uk
www.francobritish.org
About the Franco-British Council
The Franco-British Council was founded in 1972 on the joint initiative of
President Georges Pompidou and Prime Minister Edward Heath in the context
of a developing Europe and of an increasingly globalised community. Since
then it has dedicated itself to the promotion of a better mutual understanding
between the UK and France by bringing together leading representatives of the
worlds of defence, science, politics, business, education and culture.
Please visit the Franco-British Council website for further information about future
defence conferences; the Franco-British Young Leaders Programme and Local
Leaders Initiative; and the Entente Cordiale Scholarships; along with other news:
www.francobritish.org
Acknowledgements and thanks
Baroness Blackstone, Chair of the Franco-British Council (British Section), and
the Conseil Franco-Britannique would like to extend their warmest thanks to
the speakers and participants of the Franco-British Council Defence Conference
2018; the supporters of the conference for their generosity, including the
Ministry of Defence in the UK and the invaluable sponsorship of MBDA for
this seventh edition; HE Mr. Jean-Pierre Jouyet, Ambassadeur de France au
Royaume-Uni, for hosting the event in 2018; the members of the Steering
Committee; and, of course, the Franco-British Council’s Senior Defence Advisor
Geoff Wright who made our conference possible this year.
With grateful thanks to our partners
Photographs copyright
Eleonore de Bonneval
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